Ep #72: Stress, Show Business, and Meeting Your Heroes with James Roday Rodriguez

You are listening to episode 72 of The Overthinker's Guide to Joy. Today, I have a
special guest who I know from my former career while working in television. It is a
great conversation about working in TV, meeting your heroes, and what it means to
follow your dreams. Let's dive in. This is a podcast for overthinkers, overdoers,
and overachievers who are tired of feeling overanxious and just want to feel better.
I'm your host certified life coach, Jackie de Crinis.
So, hi friends, today you're in for a treat. I have the good fortune of
interviewing someone who not only am I a huge fan of his work, but he also happens
to be an old friend. He is a writer, a producer, a director, and an actor.
In 2015, he made his feature debut as a director on the film "Gravy," which has
gone on to become a cult classic horror comedy. In the television world, he has a
very long list of credits as a writer and director. Those include "The Resident,"
"Battle Creek," "Rosewood," "Into the Dark," and "Psych." And in addition to his
writing and directing career, he is a gifted comedic actor where he is best known
for the role in the long running series "Psych," which originally aired on the USA
Network and is where we met. And now that series runs on Amazon Prime and on
Peacock. But most recently, he just wrapped the fifth and final season of A Million
Little Things. In that series finale, he co -wrote and gave an amazing dramatic
performance that left me in tears. And that's not an easy thing to do. If you
didn't see it, if you didn't see it on ABC, you can stream it on Hulu.
There is very little this guy can't do. He is talented and prolific and funny and
athletic, and he's just so much fun to hang out with. So with that, I would like
to welcome my friend, James Roday Rodriguez. - Wow,
I need you to just walk into rooms ahead of me and make my intros from now on. I
think that's what I'll do. - I'm glowing, yeah. And bucket list, making the dragon
lady cry. Come on, that's pretty big. - So let's see, we're 10 seconds into this
interview and you've already called me by my nickname, which was given to me by you
and the only person who's ever called me that. - Yes, and I called you that
affectionately and that or Game of Thrones. So-- - Oh my God,
that's right. - It's almost like I was prognosticating. I knew that something powerful
was going to come into the zeitgeist and validate the praise that I had been laying
on you for years for being a powerful, powerful, magical woman who I also imagined
when she was angry could potentially breathe fire out of her face. - So James is
clearly referring to my former career as a television executive. I was the executive
on his long running series, Psych. And I would get notes on my notes saying,
"Dear Dragon Lady." And then he would then rebut my notes or comment or argue with
my edits or whatever. But I actually treasure that name. I don't think anybody else
knows that name except me out there now. It's out there now.
I just can't wait for people to call me Dragon Lady. That's awesome. So,
Mr. I knew you as Roday and you're now Roday Rodriguez, which I know is actually
your birth name. Yes, I reclaimed it during the pandemic when I had some moments of
looking inwards and time to talk to my dad about my grandparents and heard a bunch
of stories that I'd never heard before and then looked in the mirror and was like,
"What the hell are you doing?" Better late than never. So I slapped it back on
there and I feel a little bit better, but ultimately still extremely regretful that
my grandparents both passed away without ever getting to see their family name, pop
up on the screen and be connected to my work. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But your dad does.
He sure does. And he really, really, really, really enjoys it. I love that. I love
that. So let's I don't even know where to start because I have so many questions
for you. Shall we start with this finale that you've just finished and because it's
in the zeitgeist and it was a tremendous performance as Gary Mendes? Yeah, sure,
sure, sure. Tell us a little bit about that process. I don't want to give away the
ending because I really do want people to catch up with it on Hulu if they haven't
seen it already on ABC. But you were a character who, when we meet you at the
beginning of the show? Yeah, I play a character who had been diagnosed with breast
cancer. And obviously, it's a disease that has affected just about all of us in one
way or another, whether it be personally or someone that we love. But I had never
seen it told quite like that from the perspective of a man. Although I knew that
that was something that was possible, it certainly wasn't something that I had ever
experienced first hand, second hand, or third hand before. So that was the single
most interesting thing to me about playing that character. I can't say that I was
looking to jump onto a network television show. I can't say that I was even that
interested in doing another series. But I was at an interesting point in my life
where I was trying to decide if I was done acting or not. And that came along and
I was like, oh, well, this is a good litmus test. If you pass on playing a man
with breast cancer, you're definitely done it. Like you're making that decision. And
I couldn't quite do it. I couldn't quite like make peace with that. So I said yes,
and in my head, I thought pilot may be a season two tops.
Tops, 'cause you know, the state of television and network television especially, and
it wasn't a procedural, it's like how long can this possibly last? Right. Five
seasons is how long it can last is the answer. Unbelievable. Yes.
Unbelievable. And a great character, a great character. And you did it so well
because it was never melancholy with you. It was always with your biting wit.
It was always with your roguish charm. It was just all the things. It was really,
really fun to watch. It wasn't fun to watch the end because the end was incredibly
bittersweet, but it was amazing to see you play that level of a dramatic role
because I really know you as a comedic actor. Well, thank you. Those are very kind
words and very high praise coming from you. As you know, I've always held your
opinion in high regard. So thank you very much. That does me a lot to me. Talk to
me a little bit about how you even started. I know the story, but I think
listeners would be interested. How did you even start acting? And when did the
calling come? And then what was the process? Because, as you know, I don't need to
tell you, lots of little kids want to be actors, lots of adults want to be actors,
lots of people move to Hollywood to be an actor, lots of people audition, lots of
people even get agents. and very, very, very few ever become actors,
ever become paid actors, and ever become successful actors. So it's really like
winning the lottery in many ways. And you have done it multiple, multiple, multiple
times. And we'll talk about the other hats you wear later, but I wanna talk about
the acting hat first. - Oh, you're absolutely right when you compare it to winning a
lottery. You know, my story is shockingly linear. I grew up playing a lot of
sports, all the ball sports, basically, because I was in Texas. And when I got to
high school, it became clear that I was never going to be good enough at any of
them to hang my hat on them in any sort of real way. I was also just not big
enough, frankly, which left me with tennis, which I love and play to this day. But
I also didn't have aspirations to, you know, to even be a college tennis player,
really. And so I started taking theater my freshman year of high school and I got
bit really hard by the acting bug and our high school theater director ran that
program like we were at a performing art school. Like if you wanted to do theater,
that's what you did. Like it wasn't like, hey, you can do all these things and
still be in a play now. he expected you to choose theater and make it your first
priority. And I'm lucky. I mean, that's the first dose of blind luck because this
was just a big giant public school in San Antonio, Texas. So to land with him was
the first stroke of luck. And then he helped shepherd what at the time I can only
imagine was pretty raw talent into something a little more refined.
And then when I started thinking beyond high school, I went to him and I said,
look, you're sort of like my North star when it comes to acting.
Do you think you can pursue this? You can. I'm secretly, of course, praying that he
says yes, but I guess I was prepared to accept the no as well and then probably
pivot. And he said, no, I think you can. I think you need to go to New York. I
think you need to keep studying and I think he can do this. So that made it very
simple in terms of like college. You know, I went to NYU, I studied theater for
four more years. I was on that same track, never got off of it, never wavered,
never thought, oh, what the hell am I doing? This is stupid because I love New
York City so much. Still my favorite place in the world. - Me too. - Yeah. - I
share that with you. I share the love of tennis and New York City with you. So
yes, we do. We have that. And then that's where the luck really started to come in
because I, my final year at NYU, randomly and out of nowhere,
got an opportunity to audition for a network television pilot late stages of pilot
season. Like it was about, I think, probably get shut down. this was like their
last gasp at trying to cast their guy. And I had no idea what a pilot was.
I didn't know that a pilot was something other than a person who flew an airplane.
And so dumb kid, no idea what the stakes were, went in and was actually pretty
loose. And I guess natural next thing I knew I'm on a plane, flying to Los this,
having to get permission to miss a final to test again, not a term I was familiar
with. For this half hour multi camera pilot that it was sort of the,
this is going to sound terrible because I think it might have been, it was like
the half hour multi cam version of that show party of five. It was basically like
some parents die. That's how the show starts. And then these two just out of just
barely out of college newlyweds inherit like the brothers three kids.
And so you have like this instant family and the oldest person is 22 years old,
shockingly did not go. But I did get the I did get that highlight. And I shot it
in front of a live studio audience. And this was all while I still had like a
couple weeks left of college, came back, was able to take all my finals, graduated,
got an agent, and you know, the following, I mean, I had to bartend for about 10
months, but then when the next pilot season rolled around, I had that agent from
the first pilot, got another one, that did get picked up, moved me to Los Angeles
in 1999, a year out of college, and I have not stopped working since it's,
it's, wow, you nailed it. It is, so much of it is about luck and opportunity.
And it's why I caution anyone with this dream, like, yes,
hard work pays off. Yes, to an extent, I believe that you can do anything if you
just put your mind to it. All that stuff, all that aspirational stuff, I think has
value for sure. But when it comes to this business, you do have to get lucky.
I agree with that. I agree with that. I did. And that's just the absurd truth of
it. So now talk about when the writing bug bit or did the directing bug bite
first? I was an only child who spent the first, you know,
12 years of my life on an Air Force base. I was a last key kid for a while
there. And I was just, I just watched a ton of movies. I just watched a lot of
cinema. And the good chunk of it was stuff that a kid had no business watching, by
the way, because we had cable. And so I was watching just movies all day long.
And I was sort of romanced by making movies. So once I got adjacent to that,
which was theater and acting, it was a pretty natural progression for me to start
growing my interest in making movies or learning how to make a movie, what is that?
And so writing and directing kind of went hand in hand. And I knew that it was
something I was interested in, back in college when I was taking cinema studies
classes. The first opportunity that came along was to write. And that happened
because that second pilot that I got, the one that moved me to Los Angeles, was
created by a man named James DeMonaco, who at the time was half of a writing team,
and they had written features mostly. That same James DeMonaco would go on to become
the guy who created the is called "The Perch" and all of the movies and the series
that landed on USA.
He became my best friend, Todd, who you know as well. He became our mentor in all
things entertainment industry. And when we said, "Hey, man, we want to, we think we
want to write," we figured best case scenario, he would tell us like, "Oh, you
should go read this book or or you go read this script. - Right. - Instead he's
like, well, let's pitch some ideas and like let's all write a script together.
- Wow. - And so we did and we sold it to Lionsgate and it got made.
- Wow. What was the name of that one? - It was called "Skinwalkers." This is not a
movie that anyone needs to rush out and see. I do firmly believe that at one point
it was a good, not great, good script that was turned into a bad movie.
It was also my introduction to what it was like to be a writer, how writers were
treated, how the role can sort of go from very important to completely disposable,
and it can happen like that. that. There's definitely a trial by fire and also a
rude awakening to what it was like to write, especially features within the studio
system. But again, very early on, there I was, lucking out and getting into the WGA
in my early 20s. Amazing. Yeah. Cut to psych a few years later,
and everybody's heroes, Steve Franks, knowing that I had killwritten skinwalkers and
that I was a huge horror fan and a big, just a big cinephile comes to me during
the first season and says, Hey, let's write a scary episode together. Like, didn't
even have to ask. I never had to ask on psych. So bonkers. Steve was just
intuitive and wanted to sort of shepherd and cultivate, I think,
all of my desires because he recognized that the happier I was, the better it was
probably for our show. And so the first thing was, hey, let's write an episode.
And you know, we did the finale of season one, which was sort of a send up of
Sorority House Massacre, Slumber Party Massacre, all of the sort of college girls and
perils, slasher trope movies. And John Landis came in to direct it.
Again, first time, first thing I'd ever had produced on television ends up being
directed by the same guy who directed American World from London, which is one of
my favorite movies of all time. Just living under a lucky star. And And from that
moment, because it was a good experience and the episode seemed to land pretty well,
the fans enjoyed it. It was at least two episodes a season where I was just able
to write and, you know, pitch ideas and was basically treated like a member of the
writer's room, even though I was in Vancouver and everybody else was in Los Angeles.
But there was oddly, there was never any resentment. No, not at all.
people loved when you wrote and all of it. The interesting thing to me is I really
do love your humility and I love how often you will give it up to it was luck.
I was in the right place at the right time or somebody was really gracious or I
had all these incredible mentors and I know that's all true, but it really speaks
to your humility, number one. But the second thing is you did at least the term we
refer to in coaching all the time is you took the action steps. So everything
starts with a circumstance, right? So the circumstance is, you know, acting or
opportunity, I guess, is the circumstance. But you had this thought, I want to be
an actor and I like film and I like writing and I would like to be involved in
directing and producing to the degree that you even knew what that was when you
started in film school. But then what you did was you took action,
you know, you went to film school, you got on the airplane and went and did a
test in Los Angeles and, you know, got permission to miss your finals, although I
think most kids would probably do that even if they didn't know what a pilot was.
You took the opportunity to write when somebody gave you the opportunity to write,
you took the opportunity to direct when somebody gave you the opportunity to correct,
and you've never stopped. And that's kind of, I believe, the difference between just
being lucky and just being talented. There's a lot of lucky people and there's a
lot of talented people. It's marrying those two things with hard work.
And that's what you have. You're absolutely right. And if there was anything worth
preaching to people who may be watching with similar aspirations, it is the hard
work part. Because the other thing that I can tell you about this business, which I
know you can attest to, is it's here today, gone tomorrow. Like you can think that
you've arrived and four episodes of whatever thing you're working on later,
you are back out on the street and it is what have you done for me lately? And
That is just a harsh reality of our business. So the one thing I can say that I
did once those opportunities started presenting themselves, and maybe I overcorrected,
maybe I did, maybe there's a better balance. I don't wanna say you have to do it
like this, but that's it. I was just like, right now while I am young and I have
infinite energy and a ton of drive, like I'm going to Like I'm going to put all
of my resources, all of my emotional reel, I'm going to put it into trying to get
as far down this field as I possibly can. So that if something doesn't go my way,
or there is a bit of a dry spell, I will have built up enough currency and enough
equity that I don't disappear overnight. And in order to do that, I didn't go on a
lot of vacations. I didn't go to a lot of parties. That was not part of my 20s
in Los Angeles. You know, I really didn't date that much. Like I chose,
you know, dream. And to that extent, I can say hard work does pay off.
Because I came out to LA with a lot of guys and gals the same age, sort of in
the same place at the same time with very similar backgrounds and resumes. And the
one thing I feel like I was doing more than them was keeping my eyes on the
prize, you know? I agree with you. I agree that you've done that. There's definitely
value in that. Okay, so now having worn all four hats,
which many of your colleagues have, but not everybody. It's pretty unusual to hold
all four, which is acting, writing, directing, and producing. Do you have a favorite
hat currently? It's not producing. That's a distant fourth. You know this.
A lot of producing is just managing personalities. And it's so exhausting.
Because everyone, including us, are just so sensitive and so different and have
different needs. And then you realize, that's great, but none of it has anything to
do with this thing that we have to get made 100%. So that's that yeah,
that's a distant hat. Okay. Then I would say, you know, for most of my life,
you know, acting was obviously way up at the top, there has been a bit of an
evolution for me and I would say acting has probably dropped down and is probably
in that in that three spot now and writing and directing has kind of pushed past
it. I just feel like there's more ground to cover, there's more possibilities. There
comes a point in any actor's career with very few exceptions like maybe Richard
Farnsworth being a great one where you kind of are what you are. you've been doing
it for long enough, and the business has seen you for long enough that you're a
working actor, and that's awesome. But the chances of something dramatically changing
who you are in this business as an actor, once you've been doing it for 25 years
are slim.
Versus creating something where you're kind of an invisible, you're the invisible
person. Like Nobody knows what writers look like. And with few exceptions, nobody
knows what directors look like. It's just what is this thing that you made? So for
me, I feel like the ceiling is higher and the possibilities are greater in terms of
what I can contribute as a writer and a director for the next chapter of my life
than they are for what I can do as an actor. So that's sort of where I've settled
in. - That's a great answer. Now, I think I know the answer to this next question.
It's actually one of the few things. We'll see if I'm right, but it's one of the
few things you and I differ on because we both love animals. We both love tennis.
We both love movies. We both love television. I probably like talking more than you
do, although which is so funny because you make your living projecting the idea that
you like talking, but I in fact like talking. But in real life, I think you're
more the introvert, I'm probably more the extrovert, which is very peculiar because I
would never get on camera. What's your favorite genre? It's hard, and it's always
been hard. That's what I thought you'd say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From a way to early
age, I was watching monster movies and Italian giallos,
and people getting carved up, and I just couldn't get enough of it. And a lot of
it, I mean, it wasn't like, oh, the, the nuanced storytelling is, is speaking to
me. It was more, it was something very visceral at that point. It was like, how do
these monsters get made? How does this happen? Because even at six years old,
I knew that the woman getting ripped apart by the werewolf in American World of
London was walking, was getting up and walking away from that. Like I knew that I
wasn't watching somebody die. What I was watching was magic. And I wanted to know
how that magic was happening versus watching an incredible scene between,
you know, Kevin Klein and Glenn Close and the big chill. Yeah, that's great. But
like, it's just two people sitting on and talking on a bed. Like, I can see that
in my own house. And what is this spectacle? And so for a while there,
I became like absolutely obsessed with like practical and makeup effects and
prosthetics and making my own masks and slashing my own throat and turning myself
and all that kind of stuff. Never scared me, not for one second, can't explain it.
There was just, it was never an issue. And I think once my mother realized that,
she was like, well, He's not scared, it's not giving him nightmares. He doesn't
think there's a monster under his bed and he seems to enjoy it and it occupies him
for long stretches of time. So yeah. - She went with it. She went with it. - As
long as I promised to cover my eyes if there are boobies. So people could get
ripped to shreds and have-- - Right, but no sexual. - Not a nipple, are you kidding
me? - Right, hilarious, hilarious. All right. Probably a trick question because I
think it's hard to pull from a 25 -year career in a moment with no preparation, but
try or give me your top three if you can't single it out. What was your biggest
thrill of your career? And let me qualify that. I don't mean like your first
opportunity to write, your first opportunity to direct. I don't mean that. I mean,
as a TV star, is there any moment where you're like, Holy cow, I can't believe I
get to do a scene with this person or direct this person or they're directing me.
John Landis, you already named, but is there a moment where you're like, "I think I
know what it is, but I want to hear it from you"? I'll preface it by saying,
Psyche was my dream job for so many reasons, one of which was we became a time
capsule for actors and actresses who, frankly, peaked in the '80s and early '90s.
- A hundred percent. - And as a result, we just got to go through our personal wish
list of bringing people back that we grew up watching and loving and having crushes
on. And they all said yes. So it was a you know,
on that show. I was in constant fanboy mode. I'll get to the one that I think
you're thinking of. - Well, we'll see, we'll see if I'm right. 'Cause you did an
awful lot of episodes. So it would be hard to know if I guessed right. - Along the
way, there were so many, but one of the ones that I was so jazzed about,
but also probably most proud of was when Allie Sheedy came up to play what would
become sort of an iconic character within the fabric of sight, because not only was
she one of my favorites from the time I was a little bitty thing, but she was not
what we had in mind when we wrote that character. We did a huge pivot from Rudger
Hauer, which is about as far as you can get on the other side of the spectrum of
acting to Allie Sheedy, and then what she did with that character and the way she
made it her own, it was just, I don't know, it just felt so chismity and
beautiful. And then Allie herself turned out to be an absolute beautiful gem of a
human being and we're very good friends to this day. And that was certainly one of
the moments where I was just like, I am so lucky to not only do what I do,
but to meet who I get to meet and work who I get to work with. Another one is
when after five years of banging on the door and getting probably increasingly
annoying along the way, I finally got everybody to sign off on doing a Twin Peaks
episode. Twin Peaks was probably my favorite television show of all time. - It's my
top 10. - I had become not through just sheer living in Los Angeles and playing
softball. I become friends with Dana Ashbrook, who played Bobby Briggs. I knew I had
the key. I knew if I could just get the green light, I knew I could go to Dana
and he would help me campaign with the rest of the cast. And sure enough,
we had eight members of the Twin Peaks cast up all to do one episode.
They were literally having a reunion at the Sutton Place, which is a hotel in
Vancouver. Some of them hadn't seen each other in 15 years. Once again, I sat there
pinching myself, and I think peeing a little bit because I just couldn't believe it.
These were the characters that I was, it was destination viewing for me, you know,
as a 12 and 13 year old, and now they were all sitting around me, you know,
breaking bread and telling stories, and then I actually got to watch them all act
in an episode that I co -wrote. It was just bonkers, which gets me to the one
that, I'm guessing this is the one that you would have said if you were on
"Jeopardy !" And that was in the finale of the series of "Psych." We had a
character that we had referred to the entire run of the show, but he lived off
camera He was a detective at the police station and we would call him out and we
talked to him and address him But he lived an entire full emotional life Not in
front of the camera in the finale We revealed who that detective was the whole time
You just didn't know it and it was ended up being my childhood idol. I would say
childhood all the way through college, well into my 20s, and that was Val Hilmer.
He was an absolute dreamboat, and they say, "Don't meet your heroes." And in Val's
case, I was worried because there's a lot of crazy stories out there about old Val,
and he showed up and was a prince to everyone. He was an absolute joy. He was so
generous with his time. It was it. That Not only was Psych Over, but this
incredible journey that was rife with so many of those types of moments ended with
the biggest one of all. It wasn't cherry on top of a sundae, it was, you know,
it was an entire strawberry field. I switched fruits on you there, but I didn't
think there was a next level and then there was. I share your love affair of Val
Kilmer growing up, I'm older than you. So my Val Kilmer experience was college,
but, you know, in that, when I discovered him. But yeah, those are some of my
favorite, favorite movies of all time. So I share that with you. I share your Love
of Alley Sheedy, because Breakfast Club is definitely in a top 10 movie for me. I
share most of those. What I thought you would say, so I actually would have gotten
the Jeopardy! question wrong was Kurt Smith. That's a trick question because Kurt had
never acted before we made him act on psych, but it counts as far as meeting one
of your heroes, absolutely 100%. Just because you were such a tears from peers fan.
If you ever listen to this podcast, it's very important to me that I qualify the
fact that, you know, while he is a fine actor and he does, he has repeatedly done
a wonderful job playing himself. I was initially going through people that are mostly
identified for their work as Thespians. But if we're opening up, opening up to
musicians as well, yes, he's right there at the top. And that was just me, in a
moment that's very not out of character for me, as we sort of just covered. Like,
I am somewhat introverted and I tend to be shy, especially when I first get to
know you or like when I first started a job. But I got backstage at a tier two
first concert and I don't know. Maybe I had some liquid courage in me. I don't
know what was going on that night, but I just marched up to that dude and I said,
hey, man, you ever want to be on a television show? I'll put you on site.
I like I was acting like I was, you know, the head of the studio. I'll put you
on site. Whatever you want to do, man, whatever you want to add his manager next
to him, I was like, you just say the word, we'll figure it out. It was one of
the boldest, most ridiculous things that I've ever done. And sure enough, you know,
his kids at the time were aware of psych and like the show as it so often
happened, next thing we knew, there's Kurt coming up to Vancouver having never acted
before. And he would go on to make multiple appearances And we just, you know, it
kind of became a runner of like, what thing would we do to torture Kurt Smith
next? I mean, it's so awesome. It's so awesome. I got attacked by a panther.
Oh my God, I love reliving some of these episodes with you. It is so much fun.
I would be remiss if I didn't end this interview with a couple of more questions,
just to sort of bring it all full circle to what I do now for a living,
which is help people, mostly in the entertainment business, but also outside of the
entertainment business, manage their stressful or anxious minds. And I imagine with
someone with your brain capacity and drive and work ethic and all the things,
You had to have had your share of stress and anxiety throughout your career. I know
you've been blessed. I know you feel like you had a lucky star above you, supremely
talented, but it's still a lot. You're juggling a lot,
characters, words, scripts, personalities, agendas, budgets,
all the things. What was kind of your it all along to managing stress and anxiety
or what is currently? And do you have a daily routine? That's my third question. So
it's like a compound question. Sorry about that. Yeah. Undoubtedly, stress and anxiety
for sure, almost every day. I mean, it's crazy what we can normalize as human
beings. But I think once you sort of fall into a schedule and especially the one
that I've been on for so long, you just kind of build build what you're saying,
that routine into what you're doing and what might seem crazy to someone else starts
to feel pretty routine and normal to you as long as you have a handle on it.
And I think the greatest source of my stress and anxiety over the years has always
been expectation, like because opportunities linked directly to expectation,
like not only what other people expect, but what do you expect of yourself? We were
part of a machine that existed solely and people don't talk about this enough
because of fans, because people turned on their televisions at night and needed to
cut loose and relax and escape. That's why we all had jobs. Like those people don't
give a shit. If they don't watch television, if they find some other way to
entertain themselves, we're screwed. So for me, it was always like,
you have this opportunity, what are you going to do with it? And how are you going
to make something that isn't just fluff and blows away, but that might actually
somehow, you know, penetrate that first layer, you know, and affect people. And that
was the shit that would keep me up at night. You know, it was like, are we doing
enough? is our formula, the right formula. This episode just filler,
is this just a turkey leg? Is that okay? Like, is it okay to have one bad episode
of season? Like, when you're doing 15 good ones, like that was the shit that would
keep me from sleeping or cause me to get up at 2 a .m. and eat an entire package
of Pull 'Em Twizzlers. I mean, you go back and watch the middle seasons of psych,
like I plumped up quite nicely. That was certainly a product of the stress and
anxiety that I was that I was feeling at that point in my life. So yes, 100 %
tons of stress and anxiety. That's the source. Do I have a routine now? Yes,
I think I think one thing I've gotten better at over the years is appreciating the
moments when someone says, you know what you did, you did accomplish that instead of
throwing away, no, no, no, I don't know how to take a compliment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of like, I gotta get back to the grindstone. Like, whoa, time out. This
person just told you that you did something meaningful to help them in their life.
This person just told you that the thing that kept them connected to their daughter
or son throughout high school was coming together and watching, you know, psych once
a week, like so many people have versions of that story. It's like, let it affect
you. You say that's what you care about, right? So when it happens and when they
pay it forward and you get it back, shit, man, like, let you be affected by that.
Let that inform you as much as you wanted to inform them. And I think I learned
how to do that a little bit better. And it helped me with a million little things
too because I was a whole different strand of stress and anxiety. But knowing that
it was having an effect on people is what helps you kind of bring it all back to
a place where it makes sense. So in some ways, what we're really saying is let the
gratitude resonate. A million percent. Yeah. Yeah. - Somebody says thank you,
or somebody says you were wonderful, or somebody says you saved my life, or somebody
says you entertained me, or somebody said you helped me. Spend a minute going, I
hear you, I receive that, and thank you. - That means the world to me, yeah.
- Yeah, and thank you. Daily routines, do you have them now? I know when you're on
an acting schedule, it's very difficult to have any routine, 'cause you just have to
get to the that and do their thing. - Exercise is important 'cause it's a good way
to sort of isolate yourself from everything else that's happening for an hour or
however long you can afford to do it. And you sort of go into a different brain,
which I generally am able to do because I tend to take workout classes where you
can't cheat and you can't like slip into your own world because you've got
headphones on, you've literally got someone screaming at you and telling you if you
suck. So it kind of forces you to be present. And when I'm present getting my ass
kicked, I'm not actually thinking about all the things that stress me out in my
life. I love that. Trying to stay alive. And the other thing I've discovered is
cryotherapy, which is the closest thing that I will ever get to meditation,
I think. And it's because it's only three and a half minutes
And are you going into the machine or are you going into an ice bath? Which one?
I'm going into the full body and closed nose, basically like a giant walk -in
freezer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm also a man of a certain age, so it helps me
with recovery, helps with inflammation, helps plump up your red blood cells.
And I can, because I've, I'm something of a polar bear, and I've always, I've
always run hot, I can go in and shut my eyes and get to a very, very peaceful
place while freezing. So that's something that I do just about every day. You have
your own machine or you go to a place? I have a place. It's right down there. How
cool. Yeah. As somebody who's always suffering from sports injuries, that is not
something I've tried yet. Oh, I recommend it highly. Unless being cold makes you the
most miserable person ever. It does, which is why I live in Hawaii. And if it gets
below 69 degrees, I'm like panicked. But what you would feel afterwards might make
it worth it. I'm gonna definitely think about it. So as we wrap up,
are you no longer on social media of any kind? Is there any way that people can
follow you? I mean, other than of course seeing your shows on Amazon and Peacock
and Hulu and all the things, is there any way people can follow you? - You have an
Instagram account, it's still my, just my name, I don't post much on there, but the
stuff I do post is usually for a good cause, so there's always that. Yeah,
it was the funniest, like most surreal little story I was hacked,
I used to be fairly active on Twitter, it's tough, it's tough out there. Trying to
navigate when to engage and what soapboxes to stand on and what is this platform
actually for. And it was tough because I think we were all experiencing our own
versions of that. And that was before Elon took it over. So it was already like
tumultuous. And then one day I'm sitting there and I get a text and an email
within like a couple minutes of each other saying, we're detecting someone trying to
get into your account and it seems fishy. If this is you, disregard. If not, like
we're, you know, respond. And I was like, well, definitely fishy 'cause I'm sitting
here watching sports. So I respond to the email and then it gives me a code.
And then the text says, you should have just gotten a code, type this in now. I'm
half paying attention to all of this shit. - I'm trying to watch a tennis match. So
I just like, yeah, I guess this is the infrastructure. - Oh, no. - So I typed this
code in to my phone and then two minutes later, I get a text from the same number
going 25 ,000 Bitcoin if you want it back. - No way.
- I guess from a burner number. And I was like, did you do any research before you
hack people, because if you did, you would have known that there is no universe
where an eye was going to give you one penny, Bitcoin, USD,
or Canadian dollars to get my Twitter account back. But good job. Well done.
You got me. And that was it for me on that platform. Oh, I love that.
I'm sorry about that. I'm not on Twitter. It's one of the few platforms I'm not
on, but mostly because I just can't deal with the political rhetoric.
It makes me lonely and just is it James Rodea or James Rodea?
Rodriguez on Instagram. I think it's still just James Rodea is my handle.
Change it. So I didn't just so people can see you and all. Yeah. And You know
what, I have to say one thing before you wrap this up too, because, you know, we
just covered this gratitude, and this is an opportunity for me to tell everyone who
listens to your podcast, what an absolute joy and pivotal player that you were in
my early development as an artist. We as actors work with all different types,
and because there often exists a chasm between those between those of us that are
doing the work and those of us that are the suits in the offices giving notes,
there's a bit of an us versus them narrative that's been born, especially in
television. And I gotta say, it never felt like that on psych and it never felt
like that with you. I felt like you were a real advocate of what we were doing
and me specifically, and I just want to say thank you for being someone who's so
early on, saw me as more than just an actor and was able to identify the sum of
my parts and for giving me opportunities to do things that were outside of just
acting and for just generally being intelligent and sane and saying thoughtful,
helpful things and giving good notes. I feel like that should be out there about
you for all of your listeners to hear. Well, in honor of what you were just
saying, I received that compliment with gratitude and thank you. That is very
generous of you. It feels like a lifetime ago that I wore a suit, that I was a
suit, or that I was giving someone like you notes, but I recall it vaguely,
and I appreciate the kind words. This It's been such a pleasure and I so thank you
for your time and I so hope that people will catch up with you and see the great
work that you did. The season finale just premiered I think just two weeks ago so
they can grab it and they didn't see it from the beginning on a million little
things. They can start it from the beginning because it's a wonderful series as well
as obviously since I'm partial to it, the eight seasons So, James, thank you and
thank you very much. The pleasure was mine. And good luck with your next episode,
which I believe is Jeffrey Dunham. I hadn't thought about that, but that's hilarious.
All right, I will talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to this episode of The
Overthinker's Guide to Joy. If you're enjoying these episodes, please subscribe or
follow this podcast so you can always be in the know when the next episode drops.
If you would like to learn more about working with me as a coach, you can connect
with me through my website at jackiedecrinis.com. That's J -A -C -K -I -E -D -E -C -R -I
-N -I -S .com.